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Thursday, January 31, 2008

Water Powered Cars and Zero Point Energy

As usual, if you don't like this discussion of zero point energy generators, don't use the Strawman Fallacy to discredit my other discussion topics.

If all the economics I've been taught is a lie, isn't it also possible that all the physics I've been taught is a lie?

If you mention the Compound Interest Paradox to a professional economist, they will go through all sorts of intellectual hoops insisting such a thing can't be possibly true. If you suggest a zero point energy generator to a physicist, they have the *EXACT* same reaction as an economist discussing the Compound Interest Paradox.

Of course, that is not evidence that it actually is possible to build a Zero Point Energy generator. However, that is enough evidence to make me think "This should be seriously investigated."

There are lots of rumors circulating on the Internet about people who have built zero point energy generators. The pattern of the story is always the same. It always is discovered by an amateur scientist working independently. The amateur inventor thinks his discovery is truly original, so he keeps the details to himself. The amateur scientist then tries to patent his work and tell newspapers. At this point, he is visited by "Men in Black" and told to shut up. The inventor is roundly decried as a fake or crank. If the amateur scientist is persistent, he will die a mysterious death.

If zero point energy actually does work and is a suppressed technology, then it certainly would be a "killer app" for an agorist economy. At some point, some agorist will fund zero point energy research. Instead of publishing the details of the research, the results would be kept within trusted members of the agorist community until zero point energy generators are being widely built and distributed. I advise to focus on reconstructing Tesla's experiments, and to ignore all that mainstream physics has taught you.

There are lots of stories and rumors circulating on the Internet. I haven't performed any experiments myself, so I can't say which sources are credible and which sources are cleverly planted fakes. If I were the Supreme Leader of Humanity, and I were suppressing Zero Point Energy technology, I would be sure to plant lots of fake stories. This way, when someone does accidentally rediscover Zero Point Energy technology, their invention would be lost among all the fakes.

There actually is a theoretical basis for Zero Point Energy. According to mainstream quantum physics, empty space actually contains quite a bit of energy.

There is an experiment that has already tapped this energy, but not in a usable format. It is called the "Casimir Effect". If you have uncharged parallel metal plates very close together in a vacuum, there will be an attracting force between the two plates, which is much stronger than the gravitational attraction. In a vacuum, particle/antiparticle pairs are always being simultaneously created and then destroyed. Due to the presence of the plates, there is very restricted space for particle/antiparticle pairs to be created. Sometimes, a pair of particles will be created, and one particle will stick to one plate and the other will stick to the other plate. This causes the two plates to be attracted to one another. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this in the same way a mainstream physicist would explain it.

Technically, this violates the laws of thermodynamics. My interpretation is that the energy generated does come from somewhere. It comes from empty space. A zero point energy generator uses up the energy stored in empty space. According to this interpretation, a zero point energy generator literally consumes empty space. Empty space contains so much energy that the effect is negligible. If a zero point energy generator is consuming empty space, then it isn't violating the laws of thermodynamics.

The theory is that around 1900, Tesla found a way to extract zero point energy in a usable fashion. There are two plausible theories that I have read.

The first theory of zero point energy generation involves magnets. Consider the following experiment. You have two cylindrical permanent magnets, and put them in a tightly fitting cardboard tube. Stand the tube up. Place the magnets so that the north poles are touching one another. One magnet will levitate over the other magnet. The cardboard tube is necessary to prevent the magnets from falling over. You can leave the magnets alone and come back a year later, and one still will be levitating. Somehow, the force of gravity was counteracted, without spending any energy.

Consider the same experiment, but now the magnet on the bottom is an electromagnet. This time, the battery powering the electromagnet will be rapidly drained. How are these two experiments fundamentally different? The single permanent magnet somehow contained more energy than the battery powering the electromagnet.

Allegedly, there is some configuration of wires, permanent magnets, and electromagnets that is a zero point energy generator. I believe rotating magnets is part of the formula. Some people claim that it is possible to generate an electric current and recharge a battery at the same time, for a net gain of energy.

There is a second theory of zero point energy generation. This involves an engine that decomposes water into oxygen and hydrogen, followed by combusting them, for a net gain of energy. There is a traditional elementary school experiment where you use a magnet to decompose water into oxygen and hydrogen; this experiment is the wrong approach. I've seen two theories for building a water powered engine in this manner. The first involves converting the water into a plasma. One site claimed to do this by arcing electricity through the water. The second involves getting water to vibrate at its intrinsic resonance frequency, which makes it easier to decompose the water into oxygen and hydrogen.

A moving engine can be used to recharge a battery. This is what happens in a normal car; your battery is used to start the car and the battery is recharged as the car runs, with the energy coming from the combusted gasoline. For a water-powered car, the combustion of the oxygen and hydrogen generates enough energy to recharge the battery AND move the car at the same time. Some people claim to have retrofitted their car with a water-powered engine.

I have no idea if it actually is possible to build a zero point energy generator or not. There is no trustworthy third party that has performed appropriate experiments. I don't trust government-funded scientific research, because government-funded research has the effect of censoring what topics are researched. Any physicist who started researching in the direction of zero point energy would find himself unable to get a government grant. Besides, all mainstream physicists are brainwashed to believe a zero point energy generator is absolutely impossible to build. If I were the Supreme Leader of Humanity concealing zero point energy technology, I'd make sure that all physicists were absolutely certain that technology is impossible.


Anonymous said...

There's an explanation for the magnet vs. electromagnet experiment. First of all, in the 2 magnet case, when there is no vertical motion, there is no work done and no energy expended.

In the case of the electromagnet, the current flowing produces magnetic force, and the current flowing through the wire's resistance also burns power in the form of heat. This is unrelated to the energy balance of the magnet.

As the battery gets weaker, the magnetic force generated by the electromagnet gets weaker, thus the magnet's equilibrium position becomes lower and lower. The change in potential energy due to gravity is actually transferred to the electromagnet circuit. In fact if there were no battery but instead the electromagnet is short circuited, the falling magnet is slowed down (a consequence of Lenz's law), and the potential energy from gravity is converted into a current that flows in the electromagnet's wire as the magnet drops, converted to heat. No violations of energy balance here.

This is the principle used in "eddy current brakes", which are used in elevators, for example.

Adam McChesney said...

hey there is an actual zero point energy generator i havent used it or messed with it any but it looks interesting and i hope to see if it cna be duplicated on a grander scale. heres a link to the site that sells it.

Anonymous said...

LOL, the Think Geek link is very funny!

Anonymous said...

LOL, the Think Geek link is funny!

Anonymous said...

That Zero Point Energy Generator is a hoax:

Anonymous said...

No machine is more than 100% efficient; stop the nonsense words.
You can not get more out of a machine, than what you put in.
Only the simple-minded, think it all is simple.

Anonymous said...

To see some very cool technologies, go to:

Re: water power. Imagine I chop wood, and then burn it.
Where does the energy come from? It's from the burning of the wood of course.
Not from the chopping. And there is a lot more energy produced from the burning
of the wood, than the chopping.

So far, standard electrolysis consumes more energy to split hydrogen and oxygen,
than comes from the burning of the hydrogen. Seems plausible that a more
efficient way to split the hydrogen and oxygen could be developed.

This already occurs in the petroleum industry. It takes x petroleum energy
to distill a barrel of oil into its components. But more energy (x + y) comes out of
the burning of the resultant petroleum products such as gasoline.

FSK said...

I found "electric solar theory" to be interesting. That might be related to this subject.

Cogitation said...

Comment directed to previous Anonymous, talking about how firewood and oil produce more energy than is used to produce them.

That's because firewood and oil have *chemical* energy stored in the molecular bonds of the compounds that make them up. These were formed over long periods of time, effectively from solar energy. Trees use photosynthesis to grow. Oil is the product of heat, pressure and time on biological remains, which died after a lifetime of feeding on animals which fed on plants which received energy from the Sun.

Almost everything on Earth is powered by thermonuclear conversion of hydrogen to helium in the core of the Sun. Only geothermal energy (powered by radioactive decay of unstable elements in the Earth's core) and ocean tide energy (caused by tidal gravity due to both the Moon and the Sun) are not.

Unknown said...

The idea of what you call a "zero-point energy generator", based on the primary concept of physics, whereby energy cannot be created nor destroyed, is entirely plausible. It is not truly generating energy. Similar to solar powered PV panels, where what is being done is that radiant energy from the sun (free, as in without a realized cost of work) is converted into electricity for what we see as a gain of energy, where what is happening is a CHANGE in the form of energy.
Magnetic systems do not create energy from empty space. Magnetic systems utilize the inherent magnetism of our planet. I agree with the idea of what you are calling free energy generators, however calling them free energy generators is partly to blame for the ease of dismissal by mot reputable scientists.
Magnetism is obviously a stronger force than our Earth's gravity. We have used gravity to perform "free" work for us for centuries (hydro-power plants, grist mills). The obvious next step is to utilize a more powerful form of energy.

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